Interview with Pavel Durov

In a rare and candid interview from Telegram’s Dubai headquarters, Pavel Durov, the enigmatic founder behind one of the world's fastest-growing messaging apps, sat down with Tucker Carlson to peel back the curtain on his extraordinary life and the defiant philosophy that shaped Telegram. From his Soviet childhood to battles with governments and tech giants, Durov unveiled a narrative of relentless pursuit for freedom and privacy, revealing the man behind the global phenomenon.

From Soviet Russia to Silicon Valley's Scrutiny

Pavel Durov's journey began in 1984 in the Soviet Union, a system whose "deficiencies of the centralized system" he witnessed firsthand. His family's move to Italy at age four offered a stark contrast, cementing his belief in the "capitalist system, the free market system is definitely better." Returning to chaotic 90s Russia, Durov and his prodigy brother, a multiple world champion in math and programming, immersed themselves in coding. By 21, he had founded VK, dubbed "the Facebook of Russia," where he served as the sole employee, writing code, designing, managing servers, and even handling customer support. This intense, hands-on approach built VK into the dominant social network across post-Soviet countries.

However, his commitment to free speech soon clashed with government demands. When the Russian opposition used VK to organize protests, Durov refused requests to ban these communities. Later, during the 2013 Ukraine protests, the Russian government demanded private data of Ukrainian organizers. Durov again refused, stating, "This is a different country; we won't betray our Ukrainian users." The choice was clear: comply or leave. He chose the latter, selling his stake and resigning.

Key Insights:

• Early exposure to contrasting political systems deeply influenced his values.
• A "build it yourself" mentality and relentless work ethic characterized his early ventures.
• His refusal to censor or provide user data to the Russian government led to his exodus.

Key Changes:

• Transition from the sole employee of VK to a founder on the run, seeking a new base.
• Shift from a regional social network (VK) to the conceptualization of a globally secure messaging app (Telegram).

The Perilous Search for a Private Home

Leaving Russia, Durov embarked on a global quest for a new home for his fledgling Telegram, co-founded with his brother to address the critical lack of secure communication he experienced. They tried Berlin, London, Singapore, and San Francisco. While in San Francisco, after a meeting with Jack Dorsey, Durov found himself "attacked on the street... three big guys tried to grab my phone from my hands." He fought them off, bloodied but unbowed, stating, "I didn't want to let them have my phone." This unsettling incident was compounded by consistent pressure from US security agencies.

He recounted FBI agents greeting him at airports and showing up at his rented house. More alarmingly, he detailed an alleged attempt by US government cyber security officers to secretly hire his engineer "to break into Telegram," asking him to integrate "certain open-source tools that... would serve as backdoors." Durov concluded, "I have very limited faith in platforms developed in the US from a security standpoint." These experiences solidified his resolve to find a truly neutral ground.

Key Learnings:

• Even in seemingly 'free' countries like the US, personal safety and governmental overreach were significant concerns for a privacy-focused company.
• The incident in San Francisco and persistent FBI attention highlighted the need for a location beyond major geopolitical influence.
• The alleged attempts to create backdoors underscored the critical importance of strong encryption and operational independence.

Key Practices:

• Prioritizing secure, encrypted communication tools, a core mission born from personal experience.
• Maintaining a lean and mobile operational structure to avoid bureaucratic hurdles and surveillance.

Dubai: A Bastion of Neutrality and Efficiency

Seven years ago, Durov found his answer in Dubai. What began as a six-month trial became Telegram's permanent home. He praised the "ease of doing business here," the ability to "hire people from anywhere in the world," and the "very tax efficient" environment with excellent infrastructure. But the most crucial factor was its neutrality. "It's a neutral country, it's a small country that wants to be friends with everybody," he explained. "It's not aligned geopolitically with any of the big superpowers, and I think it's the best place for a neutral platform like ours to be in."

This neutrality, he says, has translated into zero pressure from the UAE government to reveal backdoors or ban content, a stark contrast to his experiences elsewhere. While Telegram still receives demands from governments globally, they navigate them with a clear policy: assist with legitimate requests concerning violence or terrorism, but "ignore" those that cross "the line" into censorship or privacy violation. He cited receiving two contradictory letters from the US Congress regarding January 6th data, one demanding data, the other warning against it. His response? "We decided to ignore them because it's such a complicated matter related to internal politics in the US. We don't want to take any... if you ignore your problems, most of them do go away."

Key Insights:

• A neutral geopolitical base is essential for a platform committed to global free speech and privacy.
• Dubai offered a unique combination of business efficiency and non-interference.
• The strategy of "ignoring" politically motivated demands has proven effective for Telegram.

Key Practices:

• Maintaining strict neutrality, applying rules equally to all sides, whether opposition or ruling party.
• Balancing cooperation with governments on clear illegal activity while staunchly defending free speech principles.

The Maverick Architect: Unconventional Success and Unwavering Principles

Durov's approach to running Telegram is as unconventional as his personal story. Telegram remains 100% owned by him, a rarity for a company of its scale. He eschewed venture capital in early stages, taking only debt and funds from a prior crypto project, precisely "because we wanted to be independent." His personal wealth, accumulated over a decade, largely sits in bank accounts or Bitcoin; he owns "no big assets, an island in Hawaii, or no no no land, no real estate, nothing." This detachment stems from a singular focus: "for me my number one priority in life is my freedom." He believes owning assets would "tie you down to a physical location" and distract him from Telegram.

Remarkably, Telegram achieves its global reach of nearly 900 million users with "zero dollars" spent on marketing. Its growth is "purely organic" because "people love our product." The company's core team consists of only about 30 engineers, chosen through rigorous online competitions, with Durov still serving as the "only product manager." He views this lean, efficient model as superior to publicly traded tech giants, which he believes suffer from "redundancy bureaucracy" to appease Wall Street, creating "World Peace Department and a foosball Department." During the COVID-19 pandemic, Telegram stood out as one of the few platforms that "didn't take down accounts that were skeptical in relation to some of these measures," a decision Durov believes was "the right strategy." He also welcomed Elon Musk's acquisition of Twitter, seeing it as a positive development for innovation and free speech in the industry.

Key Insights:

• Personal freedom and independence are paramount, influencing business structure and lifestyle choices.
• Quality and user experience drive organic growth, making traditional marketing unnecessary.
• Extreme efficiency with a small, highly skilled team can outperform large, bureaucratic organizations.
• A commitment to intellectual freedom, even for unpopular views, is a core business principle.

Key Practices:

• Retaining 100% ownership to maintain full independence and control.
• Focusing solely on product excellence to foster organic, user-driven growth.
• Building an ultra-lean, highly competitive team through unconventional recruitment.

"I believe this strongly, if you ignore your problems most of them do go away." - Pavel Durov