Interview with Simon Sinek

Stephen Bartlett recently hosted the globally acclaimed Simon Sinek on The Diary Of A CEO, for an interview that transcended conventional business wisdom. Sinek, a visionary thinker with a rare intellect and multiple best-selling author, offered a narrative-driven exploration into the very essence of human motivation, leadership, and the often-uncomfortable truths required for genuine personal and professional growth.

The Genesis of "Start With Why": A Personal Reckoning

Sinek began by sharing the intensely personal journey that led to his groundbreaking "Start With Why" philosophy. Despite living what many would consider "a good life" – having quit his job to start a successful business with great clients and good work – he found himself adrift. He confessed, "I had what a lot of people would be considered a good life and yet didn't want to wake up and go to work anymore." This profound disconnect, coupled with the embarrassment of appearing successful while feeling drained and dark, became a turning point. It wasn't until a close friend noticed something was wrong, prompting him to "come clean" and let it all out, that a heavy weight was lifted. This catharsis freed up energy previously spent on "lying, hiding, and faking," redirecting it towards finding a solution. His subsequent discovery, rooted in the biology of human decision-making, revealed a fundamental truth: while most people know what they do, and some know how they do it, "very, very few of us can clearly articulate why we do what we do." It was this missing "why" that propelled him to articulate the concept that has since resonated with millions.

Key Insights:

• True purpose often emerges from periods of personal struggle or disorientation.
• Knowing what you do and how you're different isn't enough; articulating your why is crucial for sustained passion.
• Sharing personal struggles with trusted individuals can be a powerful catalyst for change and self-discovery.

The Pitfalls of Selfish Goals and The Power of Service

The conversation shifted to the often-depressing aftermath of achieving what Sinek terms "selfish goals." Stephen Bartlett raised the poignant observation that many champions, like UFC fighter Israel Adesanya or Olympians Michael Phelps and Andre Agassi, achieve ultimate success only to fall into depression. Sinek elaborated that from a young age, these individuals often set "very selfish goals" – to be the best at X, to win the Olympics – making every decision and shaping all relationships around this finite objective. He pointed out the irony of their public statements, saying, "why do you do it and they will say well I'm doing it to inspire the little kids which is complete []... it's just a Lucky Strike extra." Once the goal is achieved, or they can no longer compete, they are left without purpose or genuine relationships.

In stark contrast, Sinek highlighted the example of NFL Hall of Famer Curtis Martin, who played football not to be the best, but to build a platform to give back. Martin's drive was infinite, focused on what he could do after his playing career, rather than just during it. Sinek passionately asserted that "our sense of joy and fulfillment and love and purpose comes from our ability to serve another human being." Whether it's the sacrifices made for a child or the irrational things done for love, these acts, not personal achievements, are what provide deep, lasting meaning.

Key Learnings:

• Achieving finite, selfish goals can lead to a profound sense of emptiness if not connected to a larger purpose.
• True joy, fulfillment, and purpose are derived from the ability and willingness to serve others.
• Viewing one's life as a continuum, where current achievements build a platform for future service, fosters greater long-term well-being.

Cultivating Self-Awareness Through Uncomfortable Feedback

Sinek and Bartlett then explored the critical role of self-awareness in personal growth. Sinek shared a revealing anecdote about being accused by a partner of being a "bad listener." Initially dismissive, he realized after taking a listening class that while he was brilliant with strangers, he was "appalling" with friends and family. This "blind spot" highlights a common human tendency, as Sinek noted, "we are blind very often we're social animals we cannot do this thing called Career or life alone." He stressed that self-assessment, while important, must be "buttressed with the assessments of others."

Sinek introduced practical methods for fostering this crucial feedback culture, citing the Army Rangers' peer review system, where advancement is contingent on instructor approval, physical performance, and peer assessment. He also detailed a 360-review process where individuals present their weaknesses and strengths, and others are invited to add to the lists. The key, Sinek emphasized, is the ability to receive feedback as a "gift," responding only with "thank you," even if you don't agree. This radical acceptance creates a safe space for difficult truths. Furthermore, he argued that "we don't build trust by offering help we build trust by asking for it" – a vulnerable act that allows others the "joy of sacrifice."

Key Practices:

• Actively seek feedback from others, particularly those closest to you, to uncover blind spots.
• Practice radical acceptance of feedback, responding with gratitude even if it's uncomfortable.
• Create structured environments for peer review and 360-degree feedback to foster collective growth.
• Embrace the vulnerability of asking for help, as it builds trust and allows others to experience the joy of service.

The Insidious Nature of Lies and Ethical Fading

The conversation concluded with a powerful examination of the subtle yet corrosive impact of dishonesty, both personally and professionally. Sinek recounted an incident where his assistant, in an attempt to protect his reputation, lied about his absence from a call. He had to deliver "the hardest feedback" to her, explaining, "you have to do that without lying... you cannot say it's because he was in another meeting because that's not true." This seemingly small act, he explained, "sanctioned a lie" and can easily propagate a culture of dishonesty. Sinek issued a compelling challenge: "you may not tell a single lie for the next 48 hours," demonstrating how difficult it is to live completely truthfully without resorting to "little white lies."

He warned against "ethical fading," a psychological phenomenon where individuals or organizations make "highly unethical decisions believing they were well within their own ethical Frameworks." This often starts at the top, driven by pressure to hit short-term goals, leading to rationalizations like "everyone's doing it" or "it's what my boss wants." The use of euphemisms – like "enhanced interrogation" instead of torture, or "data mining" instead of spying – further masks unethical behavior. The long-term consequence, Sinek explained, is not just scandals, but incredibly uncomfortable work environments that damage mental and physical health, spilling over into personal relationships. As Stephen reflected on his own past relationship mistakes, where saying "yes" to things he disliked created false expectations, it underscored how even small deceptions accumulate into significant personal and relational misalignment.

Key Insights:

• Leaders set the ethical tone; even seemingly innocuous "little white lies" can sanction a culture of dishonesty.
• "Ethical fading" is a dangerous phenomenon where rationalization and euphemisms mask increasingly unethical behavior.
• Truth does not have to be brutal; there's a difference between honesty and insensitivity, often managed by timing and phrasing.
• Sustained dishonesty, even with good intentions, leads to personal and relational misalignment, causing stress and resentment.

"The sense of the deep feeling sense of purpose and meaning to one's life or to one's work only comes when those things are for another and in my view primarily for another where our benefit is secondary." - Simon Sinek